How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller?

Many, including me, were disappointed at Senator Obama's statement opposing the Supreme Court's ruling that child rapists could not be sentenced to death.  I see it as a tactical move to appeal to the large numbers of Americans who support the death penalty.  Now, I'm not freaking out and screaming CONCERN at the top of my lungs, but as a careful adoption of a not-so-progressive position on an issue many progressives care about, it is duly noted.

My real question is this: how do you think Sen. Obama will react to the likely outcome of D.C. v. Heller?  This case, set to come down any day now, will likely reveal the Court's never-yet expressed doctrine on the Second Amendment, and will set the rules for all gun-control efforts in the future.  Per SCOTUSblog, Heller is the only case left from its original batch, and Justice Scalia is the only justice without a majority opinion from that batch.  Not a good sign for those of us who don't favor radical reinterpretations of two hundred years of Constitutional law based on what was good policy for the matchlock muskets and devolved federal structure of 1784.

Obama's position on the Second Amendment:

Repect the Second Amendment. . . . as a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms.  He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting.  He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.

Source: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/additi onal/#sportsmen (click "read the full plan.")

There's a fair amount of wiggle room in that policy position.  If the Court announces an individual right to bear arms, which seems likely, Obama will probably have to support it publicly.  The question will be the kind of "reasonable and commonsense regulation" the Court will allow--if it allows any at all.  I personally expect a somewhat broad consensus that the Second Amendment does, in fact, provide an individual right, and then a confusing mess of concurrences and dissents about exactly what kind of regulation of that right is permissible.

So, how will/should Obama play this?  Gun control, like the death penalty, is one of those issues that the great swath of Americans known as "the middle" seem to agree on: they're for it, but not too much.  My prediction is that, whatever the specifics of the holding, Obama will play to the mountain west in his response. Which I'm okay with.  I guess.

I just hope that if Scalia goes completely off the deep end and declares an untouchable, sacred right to the automatic assault rifle, Obama will speak out strongly in favor of the need for gun control.



Display:


We'll find out soon enough (2.00 / 1)

Well?  How should he play it?  (Tips for hoping for a miracle and a last-minute, Kennedy-brokered switch?)


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:10:44 PM EST

koan... (none / 0)

i don't see enough diaries from you.  rec'd.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:23:32 PM EST

Re: koan... (2.00 / 1)

Rarely do it.  Got some longer legal posts up on my blogspot site though.

Thanks for the rec!


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: koan... (none / 0)

is it in your sig line?  id like to add it to my blogroll on my blog - is that okay?


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:29:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: koan... (2.00 / 1)

Please do!


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (none / 0)

This court decision is ridiculous.  To start as a premise that "cruel and unusual" should be determined by whether states are pursuing a punishment at a particular time is bad.

It is more reasonable to either:

use common sense abstract logic of whether something is cruel or unusual

or

try to figure out what the founders meant and apply it to today.

But to use changing standards that are based on political pressure and other changing factors ultimately is just cover for the Justices' opinion.

Does anyone think these 5 support the death penalty in these cases but are simply "following the constitution"?


by yellowdem1129 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:44:31 PM EST

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (2.00 / 1)

The easy retort is that if the Founders intended to use specific language and to have banned specific practices, they would have done so.  Sometimes the Constitution prescribes rules, sometimes it prescribes norms.


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (none / 0)

Exactly.  The words "cruel and unusual" are not descriptive, they're normative.  And norms change.  I think we can disagree all we want over whether executing a child rapist is either cruel or unusual, but not that the Court is charged with interpreting those terms.  And, consistent with its past interpretations, it has held that punishing any non-fatal crime with death is both.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (2.00 / 1)

Well, "cruel" is normative, but "unusual" is descriptive. And, although I agree that the normative nature of that clause permits deviation from original meaning (in 1791 or 1868), I don't agree with the proposition that the correct meaning of "cruel" itself changes. Rather, I would argue that what constitutes "cruel" punishment is objective but that our philosophical understanding of the morality of punishment may improve over time, which permits modification of the standard imposed by the 8th amendment.

Unfortunately the court's 8th Amendment jurisprudence depends too heavily on the "prevailing standards of decency," as demonstrated by public opinion, rather than philosophical principle (although the court doesn't rely solely on public opinion; it also discusses retributive justice and deterrence in its analysis).


by DPW on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:16:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (none / 0)

Well, "cruel" is normative, but "unusual" is descriptive.

This is true.  How does the Court decide unusual, though?  By looking at the laws of the several states?  Looking abroad?  I'm not sure, and I confess I haven't read the whole opinion.

I would argue that what constitutes "cruel" punishment is objective but that our philosophical understanding of the morality of punishment may improve over time,

As a skeptic and pessimist, I doubt our understanding of morality is improving much. Changing, sure.  But improving?  Maybe.  Cruel means now what it means now, and it will surely mean something different in fifteen or thirty or fifty or two hundred more years.  I'm not sure it'll be any closer to an objective understanding.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (2.00 / 1)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by skeptic or pessimist, but it sounds as if  you're defending a noncognitivist view of morality (i.e., moral language just expresses attitudes about action rather than any deeper claims about practical reason). If that's the case, then any attempt to standardize the meaning of cruel is problematic due to the purely subjective nature of cruelty. If cruelty just consists in a particular emotive response and nothing else, then there no external standard to adjudicate disagreements regarding the cruelty of some act.

However, I happen to believe that morality is subject to rational criticism, so I'm inclined to think the court should approach the permissibility of punishment philosophically. Obviously, I can't present a compelling theory of punishment here, but there is a wealth of literature on the subject that is far more thoughtful and constructive than the what the court has traditionally provided in support of its opinions.


by DPW on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (none / 0)

I think the DC law will be struck down. I am pretty sure Obama will support the SC's decision to overturn the DC law - he is not in favor of a total ban, just more regulations around gun purchase and use.


by ozeki saketini on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:17:01 PM EST

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (2.00 / 1)

Since I'm not a constitutional lawyer, I can't really say whether the death penalty ruling was valid. I oppose the death penalty in all cases. I just don't see the need for a death penalty when we can have full life sentences. At least with a life sentence you can let someone out of jail if new evidence proves their innocence. That's kind of hard to do if they are in a coffin.

The D.C. 2nd Amendment case is more interesting to me. As mentioned in the diary, Obama has stated his support for the 2nd. However, he has also said that how the 2nd is applied should vary depending upon locale. Urban centers have different needs and views on the subject that rural areas.

I'm a hunter and have quite a bit of experience with the laws governing use and transportation of guns. In many states, you cannot carry a gun in your car unless it is in a case and locked in the trunk. Even then, you must have a hunting license or a permit for the gun. The 2nd isn't an open-ended right to bear arms any more than the 1st is an open-ended right to speech. If you think you have unlimited free speech try talking about a bomb the next time you are in a line at the airport.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:21:31 PM EST

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (none / 0)


It's fairly safe that it will be a 5-4, Anthony Kennedy siding to overturn the DC law.  Probably entails expansion/establishment of an individual right to carry but with enough conditions that a roadmap for regulation/control is evident.  And the 4 in the minority will probably describe exactly how to go about it.

The politics of it: first a couple of weeks or months of "pro-gun" people energized and trying immediately to max what they can get out of their state legislatures, local government, etc.  It'll be ugly.  But by destroying the status quo (which they'll do enthusiastically and completely) they'll open the door wide to rollback.  My guess this runs through October or November, maybe even December.

Then we'll begin a backlash phase of regulation increases and referenda.  Our standard Culture War battles last about a year each and begin in mid-summer, so this part will likely be next spring and summer (and extend longer).  It will probably mean a long term outcome of tightening restrictions exceeding what preceded [i]Heller[/i] is my guess.

For Obama the only safe way to play it to the election is to run Right.  I don't think he's averse to it.

I think there's an easier pattern to predicting Obama's stances on things.  It's this: he doesn't sacrifice himself or his career for anything that isn't worth it.  And...to him there's nothing that's worth doing that in the present.  I'm not sure there's anything worth it in the future, either, but that's another discussion.


by killjoy on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:51:36 PM EST

Re: How will Obama react to D.C. v. Heller? (none / 0)

The Second Amendment WILL be upheld. I don't see the controversy here.


by rikyrah on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:53:47 PM EST


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